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 And then Drama

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Omnipotato
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PostSubject: And then Drama   Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:35 pm

So as we all know, shit's been going down. I ranted. A lot.

I've been planning on quitting TF2 for a while now and making some more room on my schedule to come here more, and hopefully even join an RP... But one week before I head back home from vacation, where I would be able to sort everyhting out and get things done - This whole thing happens, and it's given me a realization. So here you go, my entire rant about what's been going on, in chatbox format.


P.S. Before you tell me "It's none of your business, you weren't there", I want you to read EVERYTHING. I addressed everything that came to mind during my rant, and if you're done reading the whole thing and you still feel the same way, then that's fine, but don't hate anyone other than me for it.



Quote :
[21:48:21] @ Draezeth : Looks like Nec's not coming back.
[21:48:26] @ Omni-chan : Ever?
[21:48:35] @ Draezeth : Yeah
[21:48:38] @ Omni-chan : But we'll miss him :c
[21:48:42] @ Omni-chan : Tell him that we'll miss him
[21:48:43] @ Omni-chan : :c
[21:48:44] * Sevy sighs
[21:48:49] @ Sevy : Yeah.
[21:48:52] @ Sevy : What he said.
[21:48:52] @ Draezeth : I know some won't. >_>
[21:48:55] @ Sevy : Well.
[21:49:09] @ Omni-chan : God why the drama
[21:49:20] @ Omni-chan : I swear some people here are retarded
[21:49:21] @ Omni-chan : I mean
[21:49:24] @ Omni-chan : don't get me wrong
[21:49:28] @ Draezeth : You wern't there.
[21:49:29] @ Omni-chan : I have some respect for everyone here
[21:49:31] @ Draezeth : weren't*
[21:49:31] * Sevy raises his hand
[21:49:33] @ Omni-chan : but it's just a stupid RP
[21:49:39] @ Omni-chan : I mean
[21:49:44] @ Draezeth : The RP was what started it
[21:49:45] @ Omni-chan : jogroisgkipogrs
[21:49:50] @ Sevy : It went beyond the RP, eventually.
[21:49:52] @ Omni-chan : Yes exactly
[21:49:53] @ Draezeth : in both cases it became personal.
[21:49:58] @ Omni-chan : Why can't they step back and realize
[21:50:03] @ Sevy : Most things have been going beyond the RP.
[21:50:04] @ Omni-chan : Oh shit
[21:50:19] @ Omni-chan : we just got split apart and hate each other because of somethign triggered by a story
[21:50:28] @ Omni-chan : I mean really
[21:50:33] @ Omni-chan : If it wasn't a problem before
[21:50:39] @ Omni-chan : Why does it have to be now
[21:50:48] @ Omni-chan : Nobody had a problem putting their differences aside before
[21:50:54] @ Draezeth : J vs. Madi started with an insult from Madi aimed at J
[21:50:57] @ Sevy : It's been a problem with a lot of people for a while.
[21:51:00] @ Draezeth : which both of them blew out of proportion.
[21:51:03] @ Sevy : It just snapped recently.
[21:51:09] @ Omni-chan : Why does this ONE occurance make everything so personal and stupid
[21:51:31] @ Omni-chan : I should aim an insult at everyone who's still embittered towards anying
[21:51:38] @ Draezeth : Nec's issue started with several issues people had with the RP
[21:51:40] @ Omni-chan : "YOU ARE ALL. F*CKING. STUPID."
[21:51:55] @ Sevy : Darc said the same thing.
[21:52:00] @ Omni-chan : And then once they realize where they went wrong
[21:52:02] @ Omni-chan : I'll take it bck
[21:52:06] @ Draezeth : but due to pretty much everyone that was there, it became personal
[21:52:13] @ Draezeth : at least for Kenny.
[21:52:20] @ Sevy : Mhm.
[21:52:30] @ Omni-chan : And why kenny in particular
[21:53:31] @ Draezeth : Well, he's got emotional issues
[21:53:38] @ Omni-chan : *sigh*
[21:53:42] @ Draezeth : and Sevy, Aka and Scotia unintentionally set them off
[21:53:47] @ Omni-chan : Yeah
[21:53:48] @ Sevy : (I think a lot of us do, Drae)
[21:54:00] @ Sevy : Yeah, I think I'll take most of the blame for that.
[21:54:13] @ Omni-chan : Um
[21:54:20] @ Draezeth : Scotia tried to when I talked with her.
[21:54:22] @ Sevy : Actually, I'm not sure you're right about that Drae.
[21:54:28] @ Omni-chan : Is there any reason or are you one of those people who feel bad for everything
[21:54:35] @ Sevy : At the time, it might have been intentional
[21:54:41] @ Draezeth : True.
[21:54:50] @ Draezeth : Not at first, but when I saw some of the stuff you guys said
[21:54:54] @ Draezeth : yeah.
[21:55:04] @ Omni-chan : Seriously
[21:55:12] @ Omni-chan : And what made that happen?
[21:55:15] @ Omni-chan : Was it
[21:55:17] @ Omni-chan : the RP?
[21:55:46] @ Draezeth : Yeah.
[21:55:52] @ Sevy : Yeah, probably.
[21:55:52] @ Omni-chan : Thought so
[21:55:54] @ Omni-chan : so
[21:55:59] @ Draezeth : It started with an issue several members had with his characters.
[21:56:01] @ Omni-chan : now's the part where everyone realizes
[21:56:05] @ Omni-chan : (including Nec)
[21:56:08] @ Draezeth : Not just his chars, actually.
[21:56:09] @ Omni-chan : That everyone was getting mad
[21:56:21] @ Draezeth : everyonesgettingmad.jpg
[21:56:23] @ Omni-chan : and it's not hard at all to realize that everyone is still awesome or something like that
[21:56:25] @ Omni-chan : but wait
[21:56:31] @ Omni-chan : They're all stupid
[21:56:48] @ Omni-chan : So that can't happen
[21:57:26] @ Draezeth : XD
[21:57:54] @ Omni-chan : Steffen: Once again Austin you weren't there (He said this IRL)
[21:57:57] @ Omni-chan : Let's address that
[21:58:02] @ Omni-chan : when you're there you get really into it
[21:58:08] @ Omni-chan : but from an outside point of view
[21:58:10] @ Omni-chan : unbiased and all
[21:58:29] @ Omni-chan : this looks like some drama directly from the bowels of an insane asylum
[21:59:18] @ Omni-chan : And you know what, people can keep saying what they want and justifying their retarded hatred
[21:59:39] @ Omni-chan : But I'll still be here to tell them that they're stupid
[22:00:00] @ Omni-chan : And if people hate me for that
[22:00:04] @ Omni-chan : It just proves my point
[22:01:26] @ Omni-chan : I guess I'll end my rant here
[22:01:37] @ Omni-chan : I just wish people could be more honest with each other
[22:02:30] @ Sevy : Me too.
[22:02:37] @ Omni-chan : Instead of making passive aggressive jabs at peoples overpowered characters or lack of character sheets, and twisting the knife in someone's already unstable emotions
[22:02:44] @ Omni-chan : It's like
[22:03:37] @ Omni-chan : Civilised Day Four: Hello good sah, I have a problem with this character of yours, for these reasons. I simply think this is not fair and I would like you to take a loot at it yourself. Please do not be offended, I have nothign against you, I just think it's a little bit extreme is all.
[22:03:38] @ Draezeth : "me too"?
[22:03:56] @ Draezeth : That's how it started, bro.
[22:04:08] @ Omni-chan : and...
[22:04:13] @ Omni-chan : People start getting mad at that?
[22:04:17] @ Omni-chan : NEEDS MOAR IQ
[22:04:18] @ Draezeth : And Kenny was gonna go through with most of the issues, although he fought back against some of them.
[22:04:39] @ Draezeth : That propagated some rants, and in turn got him riled up.
[22:05:02] @ Omni-chan : And then people started messing with his emotional problems and now they're the real assholes
[22:05:11] @ Omni-chan : Because honestly
[22:05:15] @ Omni-chan : if it hadn't gone that far
[22:05:17] @ Omni-chan : it
[22:05:22] @ Omni-chan : would be so easy
[22:05:30] @ Omni-chan : to just end the RP
[22:05:32] @ Omni-chan : and everyone would be fine
[22:05:37] @ Omni-chan : maybe mad for a little while
[22:06:42] @ Draezeth : mhm.
[22:07:09] @ Omni-chan : I dunno I really want to go and tell EVERYONE on this forum that was related
[22:07:10] @ Omni-chan : just you know
[22:07:12] @ Omni-chan : go up to them
[22:07:13] @ Omni-chan : ANd say
[22:07:50] @ Omni-chan : "You're stupid, and as long as you stay mad at people for these stupid occurrences, I can't respect you."
[22:07:57] @ Omni-chan : But I know how it'll end
[22:07:59] @ Omni-chan : they'll be all like
[22:08:12] @ Omni-chan : Hey don't get mad at ME! I only did it because...
[22:08:18] @ Omni-chan : (list goes here)
[22:08:57] @ Omni-chan : And then you realize that everyone has their own justification, and I can't give them the inpression that I'm pointing the finger at anyone in particular
[22:09:03] @ Omni-chan : so everyone has good reasons
[22:09:04] @ Omni-chan : ...
[22:09:11] @ Omni-chan : Good reasons for 5 year olds, that is.

==Ends here for various reasons==

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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:51 am

^ Yup. That.

Also, I've either not been told or have forgotten because it just swooped right by me, but whoever the person/people was/were that decided to make a jab at Kenny's emotional problems needs to shut that crap down. He's had to deal with that for years, and the process of him overcoming it is very sensitive and is also taking an extraordinarily long time. Yes, Kenny has faults. Yes, something that wasn't very cool was going on with his characters, and yes, he got angry. Everyone does. Everyone has a snapping point-- and for all you know, things might've been building up inside him completely unrelated to you or the forum entirely and that that might have just been the straw that broke the camel's back. You shouldn't judge someone like that. Kenny's a nice person, and he is stubborn, but insulting him like that is going to do absolutely nothing for the situation.
And because I believe whoever did that to Kenny is one of the people that was so adamant about what I said to J, which has been cleared up, think about how hypocritical that was of you to say. Just think about it. You go right from patronizing someone for insulting your friend and, in your anger, turn right around and do the exact same thing for a reason equally as weak-minded.
It's a story, guys. It's supposed to be fun, not like this. I think Kenny really deserves an apology, but at the same time, he needs to give one as well for his outburst. Is everyone really going to hold on to all this bitter emotion just because people weren't able to control their emotions over a couple of RP characters? Even complete strangers wouldn't talk to one another like this-- or, at least, I'd hope not. This is all really dumb, and I will say I strongly feel responsible for the sparking of it starting, so I'm going to do my best to make sure it ends.
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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:07 am

Agreed. I think everyone needs to just step it down and play the song of time, go back to the dawn of the first day before it happened, because really, what's changed in this past week other than the acquiring of a few bad memories, for each of us?

On the other hand Aero, I can't really agree with the way you're treating the people who did that to Nec. I mean, I despise it too, but you yourself said that when you went back and looked at what transpired, you found it hard to believe that you said some of the things you did. I wouldn't be surprised if some others feel the same way, and trying to make them feel so terrible about what they did isn't the way to go.

Nonetheless, some actions were more justified than others. I personally think that whatever triggered people's actions towards Nec could not possible have been bad enough to provoke that behavior, but then again, I wasn't there.

Either way, nobody should feel excluded and nobody should feel any enmity towards each other for something like this. Everyone here deserves an apology from someone else, and I'm happy that a lot of apologies have already taken place and we can let it all rest. But where it hasn't happened, even if they don't feel like they can apologize now, in a bit of time I'm sure it'll all be done, as long as people can put this experience behind them.

The subtitle of Fourth Day is supposed to mean something.

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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:01 pm

Well... Some vacation I'm having <_<

I think I'll start with this.

Quote :
[21:53:31] @ Draezeth : Well, he's got emotional issues
[21:53:38] @ Omni-chan : *sigh*
[21:53:42] @ Draezeth : and Sevy, Aka and Scotia unintentionally set them off
[21:53:47] @ Omni-chan : Yeah
[21:53:48] @ Sevy : (I think a lot of us do, Drae)

I'm gonna be honest, on my end, at least, it wasn't unintentional. Kenny is a hypocrite. That can't be blamed on his "emotional issues". I am not going to apologise for something I don't feel sorry for because I don't think there's anything worse than a half-hearted apology.

Quote :
[21:51:38] @ Draezeth : Nec's issue started with several issues people had with the RP

This may have been how it started for everyone else but for me this was the tipping point. I have NEVER had a single discussion with Kenny that didn't boil down to "I'm right, you're wrong here's some info no one has ever mentioned anywhere ever NOT proving my point but I'm going to pretend it does anyway."

Quote :
[22:01:37] @ Omni-chan : I just wish people could be more honest with each other
[22:02:30] @ Sevy : Me too.
[22:02:37] @ Omni-chan : Instead of making passive aggressive jabs at peoples overpowered characters or lack of character sheets, and twisting the knife in someone's already unstable emotions

I have never made a passive aggressive jab at Kenny. Every time I brought up any issues with his characters he has turned around and tried to make the discussion about mine instead. The one thing I've learned in the last few months is that anyone on here can have a civilised debate with anyone else on here EXCEPT Necruta.

If anything ever starts going in a direction Nec doesn't like, he rages.


I'm not going to try and justify anything I said, to be honest, I still feel the way I did before. I'm not going to apologise for anything I've said to Kenny up until now because I am NOT sorry. I will however apologise for the way I handled things, It could have gone better, I'll admit But maybe if Nec would have an actual discussion rather than passing messages through others, it could have been sorted earlier.

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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:46 pm

Okay, time to reply to everybody.
Figured I'd spoiler it.
It's a bit of a read.
Spoiler:
 
I think that covers... yeah... everthing.
My fingers hurt.
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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:03 pm

Scotia Rosa Laveque wrote:


Ero/Areo wrote:
I believe whoever did that to Kenny is one of the people that was so adamant about what I said to J
I think Robyn, Sevy and I were the people attacking Kenny, and I could be wrong, but I don't think any of us were upset with either you or J. Disappointed, maybe, but not upset.

Personally I don't think you did too much attacking, mostly it was just agreeing with us.


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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:28 pm

Robyn wrote:
I'm gonna be honest, on my end, at least, it wasn't unintentional. Kenny is a hypocrite. That can't be blamed on his "emotional issues". I am not going to apologise for something I don't feel sorry for because I don't think there's anything worse than a half-hearted apology.
I actually do agree with Robyn on this. Kenny's initial actions can't be blamed on his issues. I think I should be taking the blame for those, because I've actually noticed them before, but like always, I was too soft on him and never brought them up.


Scotia Rosa Laveque wrote:
No, I'll take the blame that's being thrown at me. I was stupid, and I understand if people want me to feel bad about it.
I do feel bad about it, I was upset, and I'm sorry about it.
The funny thing is, Scotia, I think you're the only one that actually wants you to feel bad about it. I know I've stated multiple times that it's in the past, that you've apologized for it, and that you shouldn't feel bad for it anymore, and since the incident, you're the only person I've seen that's actually angry at you.

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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:17 pm

Draezeth wrote:
The funny thing is, Scotia, I think you're the only one that actually wants you to feel bad about it.
Well...
Quote :
[22:05:02] @ Omni-chan : And then people started messing with his emotional problems and now they're the real assholes
Ero/Areo wrote:
You shouldn't judge someone like that.
These.

Something I've said myself, Drae, is that if you're not upset with me, even a little bit, I'm going to register it as pity.
I did something bad, and I should feel bad about it. Plain and simple.
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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:37 pm

I know, you told me that before, and I told you it wasn't pity. I really don't see the point in continuing to be angry at somebody who's realized their fault and are sorry for it. I just can't bring myself to do it.

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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:49 am

Okay, reading this has given me a much better idea of what's going on. But I'm still going to insist on everything I've said.


Scotia Rosa Laveque wrote:
Draezeth wrote:
The funny thing is, Scotia, I think you're the only one that actually wants you to feel bad about it.
Well...
Quote :
[22:05:02] @ Omni-chan : And then people started messing with his emotional problems and now they're the real assholes
Ero/Areo wrote:
You shouldn't judge someone like that.
These.

Something I've said myself, Drae, is that if you're not upset with me, even a little bit, I'm going to register it as pity.
I did something bad, and I should feel bad about it. Plain and simple.

Well. I think you're right to feel bad - Well you were.
But if you're going to quote what I said there, I only feel that it's fir to quote what I said later on. It wasn't very clear when I said it, so I'll clarify a bit:

Chatbox wrote:
[timestamp] @ Omni-chan : Really, if you're at the point where you can make a full, heartfelt apology, and mean every word of it, and can tell the person who was hurt what they need to hear from you
[timestamp] @ Omni-chan : then you understand where you went wrong, and the only reason anyone should be mad at you beyond that is because of the slowness of emotions, and it should be them apologizing for you later for not realizing your sincerity any sooner.

So tell me. Was your apology heartfelt? I think it was.
So I'm not mad. Drae's not mad. I doubt Robyn, J, or Sevy are mad. It's just you, sis.




Now, as for Nec, I see pretty clearly what the problem is.
He's quite severely insecure. He has very few friends in real life (According to Drae, who is quite close to Nec), and he sees (Saw, anyways) most of you here as his friends. And I can completely understand him, as I was once in a similar situation, and have a friend who is almost exactly like him (He's even dutch and his name starts with a K o:).

So I don't think Kenny wanted to feel superior to anyone here. He just wanted to be justified. He didn't want to attack your character because you attacked his, he probably was afraid of being singled out because he didn't want to feel like he was disliked among Day Four which makes up a lot of his friends - the irony is that that's what caused the dislike, but that's how insecurity works.

So I'm not sure how everyone will react to this, but I'm pretty sure this is the case, and the best way to deal with it is to be honest about this, and make it known that he, just like everyone in this community, is seen as and equal and a friend. As corny as that sounds, it's the best way to deal with insecurity :/


I lost my train of thought now, so I'll leave it at this...

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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:25 am

Omni-chan wrote:
Well. I think you're right to feel bad - Well you were.
Can you honestly say that what I did can be justified just by apologising?
Yeah, no, that's stupid.
If I was convinced that nobody was upset with me, maybe, but I can't pretend everything's fine again just because I'm sorry.
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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:59 am

Of course, but you shouldn't assume that everyone has to be angry about it either. Similar to the Christian view on repentance, I've taken on the mentality that repentance makes it okay, so long as the person repenting is sincere. I, at least, forgive you 100% and am no longer angry, with no ulterior motive.

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PostSubject: Re: And then Drama   Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:25 am

Mint wrote:
Omni-chan wrote:
Well. I think you're right to feel bad - Well you were.
Can you honestly say that what I did can be justified just by apologising?
Yeah, no, that's stupid.
If I was convinced that nobody was upset with me, maybe, but I can't pretend everything's fine again just because I'm sorry.

Um...

I don't think you understand. I didn't say that it's justified, it just means that you've understood where you went wrong, and seriously have basically admitted that you yourself feel bad for it and don't want it to happen again. I never said it makes what you did OK. It just makes it a thing of the past that is cleared up and shouldn't be talked about - But, if you DO keep talking about it, yes, people will get mad about it again.

And it's not like this can make everything you do okay. It's not like you can do something evil and justify it by apologizing, because obviously it was not a sincere, heartfelt apology, and that is the most important part.

But if you don't want to think that way, then that's fine too, but it seems like you want us to dislike you a little too much and I don't think it's fair that anyone should be mad at you any more than they are mad at me at this point.

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